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Oct 27Liked by Celine Nguyen

"My image of an artist in motion is one of the brows furrowed in concentration, lips pursed in judgement, and eyes anything but closed in the way it does during a smile. It is fully open, absorbing the world in front of it." (from an old piece)

Dissatisfaction is the gap between your desired state and your current state. Buddhists say: let go your desires, and you will be satisfied. But while it's meaningful to drop your desires, the struggle towards your wants is where meaning is created.

I really like this definition of the divine discontent, and think it can be also be a way to distinguish between desires that are worth letting go of and desires worth the discontent for.

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I love how you described "an artist in motion"—just read your post as a whole and it's lovely, linking it here for others! https://fishinapool.substack.com/p/something-of-your-own

You raised a really important nuance, too—there are certain desires (for fame, let's say, or extravagant wealth and success) that are probably better to let go of! Especially when it comes to creating work. But then which desires are worth clinging onto? Because I do care intensely about whether my work satisfies my taste, and whether it resonates with at least one person. That push-and-pull of giving up on one's desires, and pursuing them, is really interesting to me.

There's a book I read last year, Bruce Tift's Already Free, which attempts to synthesize a Buddhist point of view (you are good enough as you are, there is nothing terribly wrong that needs to be fixed about yourself, acceptance is key) with a psychotherapeutic point of view (you can get better, you can become more whole or capable at life, you can understand your desires and pursue them). Possibly also relevant to this dilemma?

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HAHA I didn't link it because it's an old piece where I find the writing a little embarrassing but I do appreciate it

Does greatness come from dissatisfaction? And if so, how much does that cost permeate through your life? I grapple with the tension between self-acceptance and self-improvement *so much*, because I owe to the precious things in my life to self-improvement but self-acceptance is obviously important too!

getting the book rn :)

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This reminds me of how in viktor frankl’s man’s search for meaning, he talks about tension, rather than relaxation/happiness/homeostasis, being core to a fulfilling life. The tension is from (meaning/goal/desire/relationship/belief) on one end and the human seeking or working toward that on the other. Without it, life goes slack. But importantly also that suffering that can be avoided should be, and that that other end changes, is state and context dependent, and most realised when outward facing (when the self dissolves).

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Yes Elizabeth! I'm not sure about its philosophical roots, but I read this book called A Million Miles in a Thousand Years and the central premise was that the same elements that make a good life are the elements that make a good story - and story needs tension. Changed my life along with man's search for meaning :)

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Oct 27Liked by Celine Nguyen

Celine, thank you for this piece. I just published my first ever (!) fiction story in a literary magazine, and I was horrified that the piece they selected was the one that took the least amount of effort, pain, frustration to write. Really, THIS was the one they wanted to put out in the world? It could be so much better, and I has many others that *were* better! My source material was my dreams, and it felt like cheating, like I didn’t really write it. And in reading you and talking to some creative friends, I realize that it’s not that the story was effortless, it’s that I had spent my lifetime on my writing practice and this was one of the things that came out of alllllll of that work.

I really appreciate your thinking on this. And I especially appreciate how SPECIFIC and well-researched this entire piece was. I am bookmarking it and will for sure return to it several more times.

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omg Dizzy—congratulations!! where can I read your story?

I also love this anecdote because it touches on something I've been thinking a lot about…how the things that "pay off" sometimes, that are externally rewarded, aren't always the things we labored the most over! The relationship between effort and reward is so obscure, and frequently feels off…the reward has to be the work itself, and getting to labor over something in a pleasurable way.

And what you said is very true—you sharpen your subjectivity and your technique and your ability to contain meaning in text over the course of a lifetime, and then it emerges (almost intuitively and spontaneously) in the work in front of you. But that spontaneous, nearly effortless expression was only possible because of the hours/days/weeks/years of effort that came before it!

Thanks so much for reading and for sharing your own experiences ❤️

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That’s exactly right! And thank you 💛 My story is in Broken Antler: https://www.brokenantlermag.com/issue-five-fiction/recurring-teeth-by-dizzy-zaba

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Oct 27Liked by Celine Nguyen

I really loved this, the essay, all the links and books you reference. Thank you 🙏🏻

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thank you for reading! 🕊️

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There is a constant tension inside my body that is perfectly encapsulated by the phrase "divine discontent." I always feel I am on the verge of solving some great problem with my work, if only I can get to write it down *this* second in *this* style... But then this usually happens to me when I am driving, or otherwise occupied, and as soon as I come to my destination other values take hold -- like kissing my partner hello, or doing the dishes I neglected that morning, or watching something horrible unfolding on the news. My best thoughts come to me when I cannot conceive of how to write them down, because they are so big and abstract and often exist only in images.

However, this is all a handwringing exercise -- each time I sit down to write, and actually DO write, something magical happens, and even if I hate some of it certain sentences will sing so clearly of my soul that I'm brought to invisible tears. And I do, in fact, finish very little of substance. I was watching the CBS Sunday Mornings piece on the new Da Vinci doc by Ken Burns this morning, and the filmmakers describe Da Vinci as a man who finished relatively little over the course of his life. His genius was captured in half-sketches and incomplete fragments simply because what he was curious about had been satisfied to this kind of end. It shocked me to know that there are only about 20 Da Vinci paintings, and maybe half of them were finished. And yet -- he is a genius because he worked tirelessly to improve upon his technique, and thus some of his paintings are the most famous in the world.

In this time we live in of instant gratification, pleasuredome ethics, and productivity culture, taking one's time to create anything seems astronomically wasteful -- and yet the creative must hold fast to the belief that time will be good to those who are in for the long haul.

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Rose, thank you for this lovely comment!!! You expressed this so beautifully: "I always feel I am on the verge of solving some great problem with my work, if only I can get to write it down this second in this style"…I very much relate to that feeling of urgency! It sometimes feels like the most important and vital thing is to write something/make something beautiful, when the moment strikes…but of course life always gets in the way.

But then when life does clear some space…I experience exactly what you're describing: something magical happens, something exciting emerges, and I feel exceptionally satisfied.

Your last paragraph reminds me of a quote I cut from my draft, which is Bill Watterson describing the joy of having a creative practice: "We're not really taught how to recreate constructively. We need to do more than find diversions; we need to restore and expand ourselves. Our idea of relaxing is all too often to plop down in front of the television set and let its pandering idiocy liquefy our brains. Shutting off the thought process is not rejuvenating; the mind is like a car battery-it recharges by running." https://web.mit.edu/jmorzins/www/C-H-speech.html

It does feel like society is constantly urging us to just consume, just be passive (or be so obsessed with usefulness that we are over-active, only doing what is profitable!). It feels important to push back against that and do something with more personal significance.

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“Divine discontent” is a great phrase ... and also I'm noticing some kind of discomfort with it for myself. It doesn't quite resonate for me personally.

I’m endlessly curious but I don’t think I often feel the discontent described here. (I do live with recurring bouts of depression, so I do feel unhappy and sometimes in relation to work/hobbies/art/the things, but I tend to associate that with depression itself ...)

Maybe I just have a negative association with the word so I’m sitting with that and seeing how it feels and being curious about how that might expand my perspective.

Excellent essay.

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Kathryn, thank you for reading and for this very thoughtful response!! I do think that discontent/dissatisfaction with one's work can easily be negative (and catastrophically so!)…and I also wonder, sometimes, whether what I'm experiencing is a useful dissatisfaction or an unpleasant one.

Even if it didn't resonate, I'm really happy to have you read this 💌 and also for pushing on the points that don't quite feel right!

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Thanks for the response. It resonated in a lot of ways and I find it interesting that “discontent” isn’t resonating. It is stimulating me to think about this - my relationship with my curiosities and creativity - more. Might need a journal session and some marination. <3 <3

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Divine discontent is indeed divine because discontent spawns my curiosity and desire to know and do more. I am constantly questioning what I do and sometimes why I do it. This certainly fuels my creativity in the studio and on the written page. I am constantly editing what I write despite what “writing experts” say. I can’t help it and feel it’s an important part of my process.

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yes—the constant questioning can be exhausting (when in a negative frame of mind), but it's also a very positive force for learning more and being constantly excited by the world! thank you for reading and commenting

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Oct 28Liked by Celine Nguyen

Wow there is so much here that resonates with me at the current period in my life, thank you for putting it so eloquently and playfully.

i have always been fulfilled with and grateful for my critical outlook as it’s what has led me to develop my sense of taste. i do experience the pain of this gap between taste and means constantly when examining my creative work. the self inflicted pain and the satisfaction of working towards perfection live in such perpetual proximity.

there is also an interesting observation in my life that there has also always been the pain of alienation that comes with being this way - i feel it’s simultaneously what people love about me most (that im passionate, always with a project, opinions and ideas) but that some find it to be overwhelming to be around - maybe it’s that resentment, maybe it’s fatigue. walking the fine line between expressive critique that comes with the pursuit of perfection (if you are an expressive person) without appearing judgemental is something i find challenging. i find i’m often read as more critical than i mean to sound. i am still working on what needs to change within me and my environment to feel deeper comfort with this.

I’m about to embark on a 24 hour performance art piece about grief and separation (my first piece in ten years, just coming back to my practice) and I am quivering - longing for it to be over but also obsessively ticking over every detail praying for it to be good and for with a deep feeling that this is a thing i have to do. your piece is definitely giving me will for this final leg.

- and i love the footnote on gossip. i have much the same argument i make often in defense of gossip so it absolutely delighted me to read your take. :)

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Angie! Thank you for this incredibly thoughtful comment. I really relate to what you said about "walking the line between expressive critique…without appearing judgmental." It's something I've been thinking about too…having a refined, very personal method of judging things (good/bad/interesting/provocative/boring/&c) is so important when evaluating my own work and trying to make it better. I just don't want to be constantly castigating others (or myself!) in a really unpleasant way.

I really hope that your performance art piece is fulfilling and meaningful. I think it's always meaningful to return to one's practice…but also especially meaningful to pull off something that feels really GOOD and worthy. All the best!!

(and yes…I feel strongly about low-stakes gossip as a positive force for ethical reasoning and entertainment!)

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Angie I agree with this! Discernment is the flip side of critical perfectionism. It's a kind of superpower in its way.

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Oct 28Liked by Celine Nguyen

Thank you for giving it a name -and for the wonderful read.

so to continue then? I don't even have any decent works to burn

PS I overuse dashes but it's fine. If I'm fine with something that'd be dashes.

First time I heard that dashes can't be used too much ( or semi-colons or whatever)-was actually on Substack. I guess it's an English language thing. I've yet to master it and maybe I never will; but I won't give up my dashes. Maybe I am myself a dash-between something and something. That'd explain it too.

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Thanks so much for reading! I do think there are rules about writing—like not using too many dashes—or maybe not using, let's say: too many colons, too many nested clauses (a habit of mine, unfortunately)…but it's kind of fun to write very informally and throw all those rules out the window! I just try to restrain myself when I'm writing in other places.

I love the idea of being a dash (between things, cantilevered from one topic/interest to another maybe)…

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I totally resemble this remark. Except that unlike the Tharp quote, at the beginning of a project I never feel my reach has exceeded my grasp -- this may be because a project has to be very ambitious relative to my constraints in order for me to generate the kind of interior feeling that I know (now, with experience) will generate the energy the project needs, sustained over the time period the project requires. And I have a sense of being able to build the skills necessary for the project as I go (which probably comes from the background in stats research).

There is nearly always something super sublimely exciting that motivates me to do anything that I undertake voluntarily, then there is the swinging pit of despair ("I'm going to betray the muse! NO! dammit!!! why didn't it visit someone with more time and talent than me?") then the height of elation ("these four paragraphs HAVE IT!!!!") then the swinging pit etc. Getting used to that is half the battle.

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I always appreciate hearing from you because of the sublime turns of phrase you bring into a conversation! For example: "A project has to be very ambitious relative to my constraints…to generate the kind of interior feeling that…will generate the energy the project needs." Ambitious projects are very invigorating; they push me forward into the future with so much hope and optimism.

And that feels necessary to get through "the swinging pit of despair"…I'm actually there now with one of my projects (a huge essay I began at the beginning of the summer and got extremely stuck on!). This comment was very heartening and a good reminder that the despair is just…how it goes. I'll try to return to that project today.

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Oct 28·edited Oct 28Liked by Celine Nguyen

I've been so self-conscious lately about zoning in to finish a couple of writing projects. It's painfully obvious I'm getting mood swings from my writing. One day I wake up and I am a pleasure to be around, energized by my projects! The next day, I am in a sullen mood, too lost in my thoughts to stay present with my friends, cursing under my breath this whole writing ordeal I'm putting myself through.

"But it’s this restless pursuit of greatness, even when they feel demoralized and inadequate, that shapes their lives and makes things interesting." I read this, and immediately started putting the finishing touches on my latest substack post, that was causing me so much mental anguish. Somehow that feeling of inadequacy gives me more meaning, than resigning myself to simply reading great writing, instead of shooting for becoming a great writer. Such a great piece Celine, I am adding it to my folder of pieces to come back to over and over again!

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For better or worse, I really relate to the incessant mood swings…when a project is going well, I'm so deeply and existentially happy; when it's going poorly, I really do feel despair.

I'm so happy that this post could be helpful to you and to your current project! I'm basically always trying to reframe that feeling of inadequacy (WHY am I not as good as I'd like…WHY is this project not as good as I want it to be!) as a strength and something that drives me forward.

And thank you for your v v v kind words on my writing!!

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Just bought that Lupton book you referenced! Thinking with Type is one of my all-time favorites.

I really resonated with this concept. I think remembering it will help temper some of my perfectionist tendencies while also helping me explain myself to myself when I can’t understand my exhausting desire to correct and improve in my work and work-adjacent activities.

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omg, the Lupton/Miller book is so good—the essay I mentioned on the history of typography is so beautifully designed, such an amazing marriage of form and content! I return to it all the time

I relate to the "exhausting desire to correct and improve"—I think it's really natural for designers to compulsively critique their own work! because it's a skill we're constantly practicing in our work

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I’m so excited to read it!

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Oct 27Liked by Celine Nguyen

I love this description of the divine discontent. I saw myself floating through it, like on a sea that keeps changing, if that makes sense. And doggedness, I often find that sitting at my laptop even when the words aren't coming to be an essential part of disciplining myself to be present in all ways in my writing journey. Writing is like gardening; always pruning and deadheading and watering and feeding. Both taking a lot of discipline to grow fully. Sometimes my balcony garden is a disaster and isn't anywhere near what I intended and then the next time I wake up, open the balcony door and the surprise of its beauty is delightfully overwhelming, but I also realize it's because I put in the time and effort through the failures and the not-so-greats. Thanks for a wonderful read, Celine.

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Julian, thank you for this really kind comment. And the gardening metaphor is so apt (especially the constant pruning and deadheading)…one's practice is always growing and changing. It's really satisfying to wait through a period of disappointing work, and finally realize that all that devotion…even when it didn't seem worth it…was actually THE thing that helped a better work surface!

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Oct 27Liked by Celine Nguyen

Your posts are always very inspiring and motivate me for my own projects ! (right now it's starting my own substack and reading la recherche which i also love, i just finished sodom and gomorrah)

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I'm so happy to hear! best of luck with the Substack, also reading through Proust…I have a vague aspiration to someday reread it in French!

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Celine, you have no idea how much I needed to read this essay today. I am struggling to work on my next novel, and find myself getting hung up on everything I got wrong in my first novel, going as far as taking a pen and crossing out lines from the published book! Seeing it as divine discontent, a practice that can be directed (not just re-directed), is immensely helpful. You’ve inspired me to pick up a book I’ve been eyeing for a while, the McNally Editions version of Akhil Sharma’s book An Obedient Father. This edition is an edited version of the novel he wrote 20 years ago, with a forward that details what he considers the original’s shortcomings, for more insight into the changes. Seems like exactly what you’re delving into here.

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Nikkitha!! I'm so happy this is helpful. I am honestly very impressed at anyone who can not only finish a whole novel…but have the strength and temerity to approach it again…and thereby confront the feelings of regret, uncertainty, etc that can crop up

I've also never heard of Sharma's book, but I'm so intrigued! I've been talking to a friend lately about how hard it is to observe how writers revise their own work, so this sounds really relevant to me right now.

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ah, why own a mirror at all, when i can simple stick this essay on a wall

celine, you are definitely very, very, very, very -- (not sure if this is enough verys tbh) -- good at this. i just started and launched something new and this is EXACTLY how i feel. being in this state of 'divine discontent' and not driving yourself crazy takes a lot of effort -- (the funny part is that i mostly feel it when i have to share what i've worked on, which makes me want to delay sharing, so i then have to force myself to do it anyways) -- but i think it'll ultimately be worth it. this essay is like a hug from someone who knows exactly what you're going through and encourages you to keep going. like every time, thanks for writing this!

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ive only gotten truly serious about making art in the past few years and divine discontentment is the perfect way to describe the way ive been feeling in that period. its incredibly nourishing to hear you articulate and cite that feeling with so much understanding. thank you for writing this! it gave me an immediate sense of direction that im grateful for <3

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ah, I'm so glad to hear that this resonated! I feel very similarly btw (only started focusing quite intensively on my writing in the last few years…though I was always reading, daydreaming, thinking about writing before this)

and it feels like making things + improving is 20% about the work itself, and 80% about managing all the intense emotions that show up when doing so! I'm constantly trying to find encouraging words to help with the emotional side of things

wishing you all the best in your work 💌

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